The issue with Adam’s plan is that if they had poor survey results they would be rewarded with another event this year.
I think using WPPR grade for 50% and survey results for the other 50% of the score used for an event to make the circuit covers both bases.
I’m open to any suggestion, and this isn’t bad, but there are definitely some issues.
You equate high WPPR value with a quality tournament. I can say from experience that is not always the case.
Some of these events are up there because they got a shot as a Circuit event. They got an opportunity, got excited and got the community motivated and put on a great event despite probably not being on your elite list of events the year before.
The current system uses the ‘actual players who go to the actual tournaments’ to decide who are the 15 pre-selected events. So in that way its not that much different.
This system would only make TDs want to maximise WPPRs any way possible. Right now any tournament who meets the Circuit criteria can have a shot. Max WPPRs or not.
Tying it to WPPR may create interesting situations if IFPA decides to change the formula mid-year. PAPA reps have no say in WPPR formula changes but tying the circuit to it means we live and die by the system, whether we agree with the changes or not. TDs would gear their event to use the latest WPPR exploit and when IFPA patches it, they’re all of the sudden off of the circuit.
Do you honestly think there wouldn’t be any complaining because the numbers are the numbers? I can already see the CalX players complaining when their event didn’t make it in by 0.09 WPPRs
There may be something to build off of here, but I’m not sure going pure WPPR is the way to go.
Everyone started somewhere. Some event was everyone’s first. The more we get it out there the higher the odds someone will try it out and stick around.
Growth in competitive pinball will not come from the top, but from the bottom.
Putting in a plug asking for votes for the return of Free Play Florida back on the PAPA Circuit. Last year, it did not receive the votes due to some unfortunate issues in 2015.
However, despite not being on the 2016 circuit, there were many out of town circuit players participating at FPF 2016 and in talking with people, many felt it was one of the best Florida tournaments ever.
The tourney went very smoothly with little to no waiting due to the great software and having 11 games choose 5 in the main and 6 choose 4 in the classics. Classics was worth 45 points and Main was just over 46. Not trivial. The event was streamed thanks to Bryan Broyles. It had all of the ingredients of a circuit worthy event IMO.
Hopefully some of the out of town players and A-list circuit players who attended the FPF show will chime in.
Thanks for reading and your support.
Jeff
The nominated Florida tournament is the one at Free Play Florida.
An undecided voter steps to the podium:
Question for the Free Play Florida candidate.
If you happen to win, are your dates locked in stone. Someone above mentioned the lack of events in the Southeast, and this one is scheduled the same time as OBX.
One can recall that last year, OBX & Sanctum were originally scheduled for the same day, and I believe OBX moved their date to avoid a scheduling conflict.
Question for the Critical Hit candidate: Will last years creativity still exist if voted on to the circuit this year,
The FL listing says Ft. Myers, so what is the new venue?
YES! While some of the cards from the 3-strikes edition won’t work in a match-play format, I have some very devious plans for new cards to keep players on their toes (as long as @pinwizj gives the ok)
Dan Spolar ran the tourney at FPF in 2016. I spoke with him and I know there was a mixup in the Florida candidate submitted for the Circuit list.
Free Play Florida has always been in the Orlando area. I have no reason to think it would be elsewhere but to be clear it is not “my show” nor am I an organizer, so I don’t have show details.
I will certainly pass on questions and direct the organizers here.
While I don’t necessarily have the highest of hopes for is particular methodology (i.e. spreading awareness by asking for votes), I definitely agree with this sentiment.
Along those lines, I’m curious if there are plans to address the relatively low incentive for participation of lower level players in circuit events – particularly best game tournaments (and specifically Louisville Expo). 2016 was my first LAX since getting into pinball, and I was blown away at how few folks from the Louisville weekly tournament and league participate in the LAX tournament. I frequently heard that it wasn’t worth even attempting, as there was about a 0% chance of any payout. I’m fairly certain that at one point some locals even donated their free entries to the few of us who were ‘actively’ trying to qualify, as I had entries I didn’t pay for appear, and could never get a real answer where they came from.
One show I’ve been fortunate enough to attend, that I think could be used as a great example of helping to grow competitive pinball is NWPAS – things that really stood out to me were their women’s, youth, and rookie tournaments. It would be amazing if PAPA were to push for women’s/youth/rookie components to circuit events.
Had an idea that pretty much keeps a regional balance.
For example (and i’m moving lyons because they’re kind of in a region of their own)
West
Don’t know whether or not this would be a valid solution to everyone’s bickering though 
PAPA has these divisions at its World Championships, but the formats of the individual circuit events are left up to the individual circuit directors. These side divisions are worth no WPPR points (women newly are) and thus are usually completely ignored.
I really don’t have a ton of sympathy for events that had a chance at the circuit, but failed to get good enough “grades” on the surveys to remain on the circuit. I like that they are trying to choose events based on the quality of the tournament and not on WPPRs.
Why limit those surveys to events that are circuit events? There is already a requirement that events have to be running for several years prior to consideration for being on the circuit. Why not have TDs at non-circuit events send out those same surveys to participants in their events this year?
Instead of having tournaments make a submission to be involved in the Facebook poll, have them submit to be included in the PAPA circuit surveys. Those events will have their participants fill out surveys this year and then they can be judged on the merits of those results… the same way this year’s circuit events will be judged.
I wouldn’t.
keeps a US regional balance
It sounds like the “World” Series in Baseball.
I didn’t think that either of the As in PAPA stood for America
Im told the Florida event info needs to be updated to Free Play Florida Nov. 10-12.
All of the recent years at Louisville there has been a ‘B’ Division with cash payouts.
I have sent out surveys to non-circuit events based on a request from the TD in the past. The surveys are also a good way to get direct feedback from the players.
I think another reason that the participation from locals was so low is the best game format is rather foreign to a group that mostly played either a matchplay style league, or a knockout / bracket format for tournaments. I’m going to try running a best-game style tournament in the future (depending on which machines I pick up at expo).
Free Play Florida is scheduled for the weekend BEFORE IAPPA 11/10,11/11,11/12 in Orlando, FL at this current time.
Shameless plug to please vote for the TPF Texas Wizards tournament for the Circuit this year.
Under Adam’s WPPR approach, we were probably next up on the list at 50.43, which I expect to go up dramatically as more top-ranked players are returning to playing in the TPF tournament based on the improvements we implemented and success we demonstrated last year.
